Urban Terror Forums: Urbanterror Licensing Questions: - Urban Terror Forums

Had some questions, so I’d figure I’d ask them here before asking on id’s site or on ioquake. You guys surely have more info than those guys.

I’m having some trouble understanding UrbanTerror licensing, mostly because some parts are rumors and others are included in the files themselves. Let me start off by saying my understanding of the licensing situation with UrbanTerror:

UrbanTerror “technically” uses the Quake 3 SDK which is how they’re able to not release the source code. They claim that UrbanTerror is a quake 3 mod above all else, and just happens to work for ioquake3 as well.
I can understand that fine. It makes sense without reading the licenses themselves. To make things easier, I’ve uploaded them to my server:

http://downloads.gam...t.com/licenses/

Quake3 SDK: QIIIA Game Source License.htm
Ioquake : ioquakelicense.txt
And the three licenses that are distributed with UrbanTerror currently: ioUrbanTerror_id-readme.txt, ioUrbanTerror_README.txt & ioUrbanTerror_COPYING.txt

I guess my first question is… How exactly is UrbanTerror licensed?

Now assuming that I’m correct, let’s point out some issues with the current licensing situation (assuming it’s under Quake3 SDK, which is the ONLY way they could release it w/o releasing all the source under GPL… so very likely I’m guessing). Keep in mind that 100% of the license has to be fulfilled. Any breach of ANY term is a violation of the entire agreement.

Key points in Quake 3 SDK License:

"Prohibitions. You, whether directly or indirectly, shall not do any of the following acts:..."

1 "..Prepare or develop derivative works based upon the Software;"
This part isn’t a big deal, as long as they’re strictly following this license and not ioquake or quake3 engine gpl version.

2 "k.remove or alter any legal notices or other markings or legends, such as trademark and copyright notices, affixed on or within the Software; or"
You don’t include the Quake 3 SDK license with the redistributable of UrbanTerror.

3 "k.remove, alter, modify, disable or reduce any of the anti-piracy measures or components contained in the QUAKE III ARENA game, including, without limitation, the CD key system and the CD check."
We all know they disabled it (they defined a constants in the ioQuake3 source so that they can compile it as standalone without any CD CHECK). This is against the license since the purpose of the Quake3 SDK was to keep people using Quake 3 and playing mods. By disabling the CD-check feature, you allow people to play the Quake 3 mod on iourbanterror... which is CLEARLY violation of this agreement.

Permitted Uses:

“So long as this Agreement accompanies each copy you make of the Software, and so long as you fully comply, at all times, with this Agreement, ID grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to distribute copies of the Software free of charge for non-commercial purposes by electronic means only and the non-exclusive and limited right to use the Software to create your own modifications (the “New Creations”) for operation only with the full version of the software game QUAKE III ARENA;”

Clearly allowing this mod to be ran on ioquake is a violation of this agreement. It CLEARLY states.. in plain English… “for operation only with the full version of the software game QUAKE III ARENA”. This next quote is taken DIRECTLY OFF URBANTERROR.NET FRONT PAGE TOP NEWS ITEM/BANNER:

“Urban Terror™ is a free multiplayer first person shooter developed by FrozenSand, that (thanks to the ioquake3-code) does not require Quake III Arena anymore. It is available for Windows, Linux and Macintosh. The current version is 4.1.”

Someone please explain how you can license it under use for Quake3 only, take off the CD checks in violation of the agreement, then adverise that you no longer need that game.. in violation of the agreement again… then close the source and use parts of ioquake3 while it still remains under GPL license.

Another question: How can UrT use ioquake's features like VOIP, while staying under the same Quake 3 SDK?

Potential Problems: If what I said is correct, FrozenSand is in direct violation of Quake 3 SDK license, which would require them at the very least to completely opensource/GPL UrbanTerror immediately (not waiting for 4.2). They’re also liable for damages resulting in the illegal redistribution of over 400,000 copies (at least based off QuakeUnity total downloads).
You can see why I think these issues need to be cleared up. I’m sure the developers have thought this through, but regardless the proper licenses (Quake 3 SDK) should be included in the redistributed copies if the source remains closed.

By trying to use both licenses, I believe FS is in violation of both licenses. The content from the QVM is being loaded, compiled and linked at runtime (check out the VM_Compile function inside the ioQuake/ioUrbanTerror source). I was under the impression by doing this, you’re violating the GPL of ioquake.

I hope this thread doesn’t get locked/deleted. I’d rather get the answers here than having to post this around trying to find them.

This post has been edited by GT-Rick: Today, 10:16 PM

Quote

Well, I'm sure we've gone through this before on these very forums, the short answer is "We're not in violation and we checked with both lawyers and id software directly before releasing 4.0".

Barring that, if you have a legal or business issue you want to raise with FS, perhaps it'd be more professional to contact us by other means then public forum?

TwentySeven, on 19 January 2010 - 09:40 PM, said:

Thank you for the reply, but it still doesn't explain any of the points. I've done a forum search for "licensing", but none of my questions were answered.

I brought this up in a public forum because these are public files and licensing. If you're in violation of the license, then every single person who downloaded the file would need to know ASAP. It's no secret that the guys at ioquake don't like how you guys use their source w/o contributing anything, and I'm sure ID would like to know how you're not breaking the licenses.

Here's a simple question, maybe you or your multiple lawyers can answer it.

How can you release it under the Quake 3 SDK without including that license text in the redistributable? That's a very simple question that should take no more than 5 minutes to answer.
It just seems weird that you include the license you don't use, but don't include the license you're trying to license the game under.

That is just a basic point. Please answer my other points since they haven't been answered anywhere in the forums (maybe give me a link or a search term, because I'm pretty sure not all of this has been answered here before).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this LEGALLY has to be all publicly available and easy to find. The only licenses I found were the GPL licenses.... and don't get me started on those and how you're possibly breaking that (the list is MUCH longer than this one).

This post has been edited by GT-Rick: Today, 10:16 PM

Rick, contact the team directly.

LongBeachBean... these are public issues and should be completely transparent.

Why contact off forums when this info should be available LEGALLY with any package you distribute?

This is the EXACT reason I'm posting this on the forums actually.

THIS INFORMATION NEEDS TO BE MADE AVAILABLE. There should be no secrets or any hidden things with licensing.

Just the fact that everything is so shady with the licensing raises flags by itself. From the looks of it, it appears UrbanTerrror hacked Quake 3 SDK to remove the CD/licensing key check, then made a mod based off the hacked version so it could be ran on ioquake (but hiding behind the license they clearly broke multiple times)... which itself is a violation of the license since you NEED a quake 3 key to use any mods that use the Quake 3 SDK. You do not own other people's work and simply can't add GPL'd code and hide behind another license.

I'm sure there's an explanation to all this, and that's all I'm trying to get. Explain how you're using the license, because I explained very precisely how you're CLEARLY breaking it in multiple places.

If you guys want to talk about this off the forums so others don't realize that you're clearly breaking the licenses, I won't help you do that. Why would some information be given to me privately about licensing, and not given to everyone anyways? I'm not asking what's in 4.2 or want to know anything that's remotely secretive, I'm asking how you're able to use 4.1.

Again, let me repeat myself:

Public Licenses are just that, Public. There is no reason to talk about this privately, especially since there have been over 500,000 copies of UrbanTerror distributed without a correct license file.

So unless you think that every single person that has every downloaded UrbanTerror should send the devs an email to get the proper license terms (which isn't legal anyways), you 100% HAVE TO, under ALL CIRCUMSTANCES, give the licensing info to the public.

Am I going crazy? Are you guys really telling me to ask you personally for the license info and that the information isn't made publicly available?

Hell, if there was a license in the file I'd be able to read it, but I don't even have that.

"Here, read these forums posts that don't exist and read the license file that we didn't include. If you have any other questions, contact us privately because we don't want the information public".

Someone please make some sense of this.

what's the point? id said ok.

id's verbal license to let you do it is above the license they released generically because simply they're the ones controlling both licenses and most importantly, the ones that could do something about either.